Episode 44: The Lessons Of A Buddhist Monk
Episode 44 of M3CS’s Contemplative Science Podcast saw Kevin Berryman come on to the show to talk about moral psychology, karma and the ‘self’.
For the full podcast, check out the episode here.
In this episode, we cover...
Moral information: how meditation changes the way you morally relate to the world.
His understanding of the ‘self’ and the reasons for aiming to become more ‘self-less’.
The need for a balance between internal exploration and contribution to the world.
Kevin Berryman is a doctoral student at our very own Monash University. His research examines the moral psychology of contemplative practices and selfless experiences. For more than two decades, he has been a Buddhist monk in the Theravāda forest lineage.
Here are some of the key insights from the conversation...
Duality is key.
”Along with some kind of meditative practice, we do actually need to actively reflect on our ethical standards and our ethical impact on the world. It's not just something like: ‘I'm going to do more mindfulness. I’m going to get better.’ You really do actually need to reflect on it quite a lot and think about it quite a lot.”
The journey to selflessness is undefined - there are many paths.
”It seems like such a good thing to do, and it seems like it'd be so blissful... and it's like, 'Yeah, I'm going to be in a cave and I'm going to be meditating and everything's going to be great!' But sometimes it can get a little bit hairy, sometimes you can get lost, sometimes you can get self-deluded... believe that you've got something that you don't have. So sometimes it can be this kind of drifting in an ocean as opposed to being this specific path that you're following.”
Measuring morality requires a multi-faceted approach.
”But I also think we need to start taking in more of these components and putting them together and then you can actually start to understand what makes a moral individual, in a more holistic manner. If you're looking at something like meditation's influence on morality, you can start to see: this ‘kind’ of meditation is influencing all these different component processes of our morality in different ways because we're measuring moral judgements through a moral dilemma... or when measuring moral behaviour through some sort of retaliatory paradigm where you interact with someone... and do you act aggressively or you don't act aggressively? So, I think if we build a lot of these components together, we actually get a better idea of the morality of someone.”
The best place to find Kevin is here.
See you next week!
